Episode 4: Poverty: Where We All Started
- How is poverty defined, for the purposes of this video?
- If overpopulation doesn't cause poverty, what does cause it?
- You claim that when people move to more crowded areas, they're actually more likely to get out of poverty. Prove it.
- What is it that brings human beings out of poverty?
- You claim that as population has grown, the percentage of poor has gone down. Prove it.
- Maybe population control isn't the answer to poverty. But does it actively hurt the poor?
How is poverty defined, for the purposes of this video?
For the purposes of this video, we use the World Bank's definition of poverty. The World Bank defines poverty as:
… pronounced deprivation in well-being, and comprises many dimensions. It includes low incomes and the inability to acquire the basic goods and services necessary for survival with dignity. Poverty also encompasses low levels of health and education, poor access to clean water and sanitation, inadequate physical security, lack of voice, and insufficient capacity and opportunity to better one's life.
You can find this definition of poverty online here. At PRI, we like this definition because it recognizes the true nature of poverty — that poverty is not just a state of having less money or posessions than others around you. Although those details are an integral part of poverty, real poverty is the lack of dignity and quality of life that results from that lack of money or possessions.
In other words, human beings require more than simple survival to make our lives worth living. This is why talking about poverty in terms of statistics can be tricky sometimes, as we will see below.
If overpopulation doesn't cause poverty, what does cause it?
The thing to remember about poverty is that it isn't a disease or a “condition,” like the measles or a broken leg. Poverty is the state of not having what we need. It is a terrible state to be in, to be sure, but it is the state we all revert to when our support structures are removed. Poverty is like darkness: it isn't a thing. It's the lack of a thing.
Essentially, the only way that poverty has ever been defeated, anywhere, is by infrastructures that humans have set up. So, when poverty does exist, it is when these infrastructures either 1) don't exist, like in underdeveloped nations, or 2) are broken or have holes in them. Essentially, fixing poverty is about fixing bad infrastructure, not about eliminating people.
This is made obvious by the fact that the poorest nations in the world are often among the least populated. Take the Congo, for instance, which is one of the poorest countries in the world, with a meager per capita GDP of only $300. The Congo's population density is only 75 people per square mile, a fairly light population density. Compare this with the Netherlands, one of the wealthiest countries in the world with per capita GDP of $39,200. The Netherlands has a population density of 1,039 people per square mile. (these numbers come from the CIA World Factbook.
You claim that when people move to more crowded areas, they're actually more likely to get out of poverty. Prove it.
In 2008, the World Bank put out a paper called “Urban Poverty: A Global View,” which discussed the effects of urbanization (the process of more and more people moving to crowded, or “urban” areas). According to the World Bank, people who moved to urban areas were not only more likely to escape poverty, but were also likely to be better off over time because “urbanization contributes to sustained economic growth which is critical to poverty reduction.” (emphasis ours)
“Overall,” the World Bank continues, “the urbanization process has played an important role in poverty reduction by providing new opportunities for migrants and through the second-round impact on those who stay in rural areas …the urban economy provides opportunities for many and is the basis of growth and job creation.”
Of course, poverty in crowded areas still exists (which is the larger point of this paper). But the point is that it continues to exist in spite of, rather than because of human population.
You can read the whole paper here and judge for yourself.
What is it that brings human beings out of poverty?
Like most things, the answer to poverty isn't any one simple thing. However, we can say with certainty that every method to alleviate poverty requires one primary ingredient: community.
Basically, in order for human beings to escape poverty, they need other human beings. Solitary human beings are incapable of solving some of the most basic problems that need to be solved in order for their lives to improve. With community, there is a collection of minds and a multiplication of labor that allows human beings to solve problems and accomplish more difficult and complicated tasks. The larger the community, the more effectively and creatively this division of labor is likely to occur.
According to acclaimed economist Julian Simon, the multiplication of humans has directly led to the improvement of our species:
“It is a simple fact that the source of improvements in productivity is the human mind, and a human mind is seldom found apart from a human body. And because improvements — their invention and their adoption — come from people, it seems reasonable to assume that the amount of improvement depends on the number of people available to use their minds.”
— Julian Simon, The Ultimate Resource
Of course, this doesn't mean that simple population growth leads to human improvement. There are plenty of places with large populations that remain poor. The point is, any time human beings get the opportunity to work together and better their situation, the percentage of poor people is likely to drop significantly.
You claim that as population has grown, the percentage of poor has gone down. Prove it.
According to demographers Joyce Burnette and Joel Mokyr, as humanity's numbers have grown, our average standard of living has grown as well. These scientists wrote a paper entitled “The Standard of Living Through the Ages,” found in the book The State of Humanity (you can get the book from Amazon here). In it, they point out that every single statistic that we have on this subject points to one simple truth: that as population has grown over time, the average person has become better off.
They measured this in almost every way imaginable. Burnette and Mokyr have graphs showing rising per capita income. They have graphs showing average life expectancy, average height, caloric consumption, sugar consumption, cotton consumption, even beer consumption! Every single one of these averages has been steadily increasing over time as the population has grown.
This is in direct contradiction to overpopulation alarmists, who hold that as population increases poverty becomes more severe. They claim that this is simple common sense. As counter-intuitive as it may seem, science actually shows the opposite. As population grows, productivity and innovation grow, which means that more and more people have access to the goods and services that they need.
Maybe population control isn't the answer to poverty. But does it actively hurt the poor?
The short answer is yes. The long answer is very, very yes. Population control programs don't just miss the point on poverty … they distract from it. Poverty can be alleviated by a number of different programs. But when the focus is on bringing down population, valuable time, energy, and resources are spent solving a “problem” that doesn't exist, rather than the real problems at hand.
"Family planning" programs miss the point, especially in places like Africa — which is that the people need legitimate, concrete aid. People who are hungry, cold and exposed need food, water, and shelter — not population control.

Good Article on the whole, but missing the bigger picture?
'poorest nations in the world are often among the least populated'
Hold on a sec... Your very much mixing up cause and effect (did anyone teach you science?), poorer nations get less populated because people move to richer nations, not the other way round. Your comparison of the Congo and Netherlands is just geographical coincidence as you have used population density. You could compare Australia with India, and get the opposite result.
I do agree with you that less people will not solve poverty, but surely it will still be a better situation. If we had less people, I definitely agree that although there would be less poor people, there would be less wealthier people to help them move up so in fact population levels play no part in poverty at all - but surely if both worlds are equally as bad (I.e. population doesn't matter), you would prefer the world where there are less poor, starving people! I.e. less 'bad stuff' in the world, even though the net 'good and bad stuff' is equal.
'Family planning" programs miss the point, especially in places like Africa' - I agree with this as well, but its quite a bit easier to say to people - stop having unprotected sex, than to give out food, water and shelter to the increased population who are now in poverty. It probably is actually worth it in the long run, becuase the cost of having to solve the real problems like shelter would be reduced in a smaller population, meaning they can be solved quicker. One condom is far cheaper and easier than a lifetime of handouts!
Also this does contradict your earlier point, to an extent, that reducing population will reduce the wealthier population that supports everyone else as much as the poor, making both worlds as bad as each other - most of the population reducing tactics are used in, as you've suggested, poor countries like Africa, where indeed it seems like a win win situation, because there isn't any middle class that supports the population that would be reduced. In the US and Europe, it is clearly nonsensical to bother, but in such cases as above, it seems like a win win for everyone.
You claim that as population has grown, the percentage of poor has gone down. But that is only an association, not a direct link (who taught you statistics?), you're mixing up your aims, from 'overpopulation is a myth', now to 'overpopulation is a good thing'. Overpopulation is not a good thing. Poverty rates will naturally go down through time regardless of population, because they are in poverty! They will live shorter lives than everyone else, and so it will always decline if there isn't any big changes like war. This has accelerated thanks to the amazing advancements of medical care, increasing the gap in life expectancy. You've just put a link with something else which will increase as time goes on... Population (of course you want to now say that's not going to happen).
Finally, linking with war, it is difficult to put examples of situations in places with high rates of poverty, because they all have very different situations. For instance the Congo you mentioned, had one of the most, if not the most, corrupt governments and leaders of all time in their Kleptocracy. Rwanda had their near genocide, resulting in an extremely low population, as well as an extremely low quality of life. Essentially the main point I'm trying to put is that at BOTH ends of the population scale, where it is underpopulated, and overpopulated, life is pretty bad. You are only arguing the former, whereas I think it has its limits and the best place for population to reside is somewhere in the middle.
In conclusion, I'm not saying overpopulation is causing poverty. I'm just saying that it makes it worse when it's gets overboard, you've argued it actually helps poverty, but only up to a certain level. It's like how you can directly draw a link between age and time in the hundred meters. But it has it's limits... You wouldn't say that a fifty year old can run it in no time at all. In fact, as you get older, you eventually start to get slower... This is precisely the kind of link I think is with population and poverty.
I you reply, please don't request that I back up everything with worldwide data, unless you really can't understand my reasoning, like you do to every other long post. Thanks :)
Overpopulation is still a myth
Sure birth control reduces the number of poor people, but that isn’t going to help the poor countries move out of poverty. To reduce poverty, they must be educated and given proper health care so that they can use their own minds and collaboration to build a better life for themselves. If aid was given in this way there would be a higher reduction of poverty. Simply reducing their numbers will not change the fact that they are poor.
While you may be say I’m picking exceptions regarding my choices of Congo and Netherlands, Australia and India are actually the rare cases. Australia is mostly desert, incapable of habitation. It is one of the most urban countries where it is habitable. India, on the other hand, has much more habitable land and its wealth as a whole is rising, thanks to the revival of foreign trade. In fact, it isn’t really considered one of the top poor countries of the world.
Population growth does not mean overpopulation. Overpopulation is still a myth. There’s room for more people on this planet. The more people able to work together the better the chance is of reducing poverty, from the inside out.
Poverty and Overpopulation
I have an idea how to stop poverty. How about STOP HAVING CHILDREN. As far as I know the story with the stork has been proven inaccurate. Having children is a choice. Most of homeless people are families with children. Does anybody think that maybe the reason they are homeless is because they chose to have children when they couldn't afford them? And don't tell me they don't have enough money to buy condoms, but they believe they will have enough money to raise one, two, three or 7 children.
Let's be realistic. The main reason why the world is going to hell is because overpopulation. But of course nobody has the courage to say it. We all love children, right? How about starving children, homeless children, abused children? Instead of sending supplies to all these poor families and poor people we should start sending them condoms. The majority of poor families have more than one child. How is that possible? There are 2 poor people they have nothing to eat and they decide one day: "let's have a child, that will solve all of our problems". The first child is born, they are still poor and they said: "let's have another one, that will make it better". And so on...
Children’s welfare will improve as there are fewer of them to care for. Considering the future world we are creating for future generations, procreation today is like renting rooms in a burning building, renting them to our children no less.
Want to read some interesting stuff? Check this out: http://www.vhemt.org/
Brave Effort
This effort is probably wasted, but did you read the article at all? People aren't just mouths to feed; if that were the case, of course having more mouths to feed would result in greater starvation/poverty. People are also producers who can grow food, innovate new ways to produce more food, etc.
True, with every child you get an extra mouth. But you also get an extra pair of hands and an extra mind.
Children do not cause homelessness
Poor Children Overpopulation
"Does anybody think that maybe the reason they are homeless is because they chose to have children when they couldn't afford them?"
I'll wager a pretty sum that of the myriad of reasons that people find themselves homeless, having a child is the one reason least likely to have caused that homelessness.
Did you even think your assertion through before you decided to write it down?
New people added to our numbers has nothing to do with our problems. These problems have existed in greater quantities throughout history than they do now. These problems have done nothing but decrease over time as our population has grown. How do you account for that? Would you rather live in the present (with billions of people) or at some time in the past (with millions of people)? The answer, from any average person living in the present, would be that they'd prefer to live in the present because they understand that living at some time in the past would mean a decrease in living standards.
I guess you'd simply say to the hungry, poor and cold person that the solution to his problem is that he should have never existed to begin with. Nice solution, genius.
Cutting the population in half will not cause a doubling of the living standards of the half that remains. In fact, it would more likely cause the living standards of those who remain to dwindle by half. If you are under the misguided assumption that we all simply get a portion of whatever natural resources exist and that represents our individual wealth, you are gravely mistaken. The fact is that the greatest percentage of our wealth is comprised of what individuals add to our natural resources, not the value of the resources themselves. Most resources are worthless unless people first collect, and process them into something useful to others. Get rid of the people and you rid yourself of the resource's value.